Sorry folks, bit of a rant here...but I last slept 22 hours ago...
We got a call to a patient who was "Depressed - not moving", normally it's some teenager having a strop, but this time it was a little different. Basically the patient suffers from depression, was discharged from the local psychiatric unit three weeks ago and has recently had her dose of anti-depressants reduced. Yesterday she was crying all night, and tonight she was just sitting staring into space, refusing to make eye contact and not talking at all.
One of the things that we as an ambulance crew cannot do is physically remove someone to hospital if they don't want to go - that would be kidnapping and is frowned up by the law. This young girl wasn't going anywhere despite my best attempts to persuade her - she just wasn't communicating.
The solution would be simple - call the Community Psychiatric Nursing Team to come and assess her, and if needed arrange her compulsory removal to the psychiatric unit ( called a "Section" under the Mental Health Act). The problem? It was 11pm...
First off I phoned the psychiatric unit that she had received treatment under, after talking to two idiots who had trouble understanding plain English, I finally managed to get the number of the CPN team. Now the LAS is quite smart; when we want to arrange an outside agency we go through our control and all the telephone conversations are recorded...so if someone says they are going to attend they damn well better. I got onto Control, passed the details to them and waited for them to get back to us.
I'd just like to say that in eight years of medical experience I have never had a simple referral to a psychiatric service, they always seem to try shirking any form of work - by "forgetting" you or by being just plain obstructive. Maybe I'm just lucky and get the idiots every time.
Needless to say we waited...and waited...and waited...from 22:20 until 23:00 we waited; then at 23:02 Control got back to us. Apparently the CPN team all goes home at 23:00 and hadn't answered the phone until 23:00 on the dot. So they refused to visit the patient - the moral so far is if you are going to have a psychiatric breakdown in Newham - don't do it after 22:00.
So we switched to plan "B" which is to arrange the out-of-hours Social Worker to come and visit as they double as Psychiatric liaison. Again we went through Control and waited...and waited...and waited...Finally we heard back that the social worker would ring the family and would like to talk to me. (Outside agencies try this trick, as they know the patients phone isn't being recorded, and so can say whatever they want with any disagreement being my work against theirs) The social worker explained that she was very busy and so would prefer not to come to see the patient and have I tried the out-of-hours GP?
Back to Control I went and got them to try and contact the out-of-hours GP (A GP for those not in the UK is the patients "Family Doctor") Can you guess what we then did? We waited...and waited...and waited... Finally Control got back to us and informed us that the out-of-hours GP hadn't arrived for work yet and that when they did, they would have to see two other patients first.
All through this time the patients family were very understanding and were happy when I explained that the GP would call at some point in the night. All I could do was advise them to remove anything that the patient could use to hurt herself, and keep an eye on her - calling us back if they felt the need.
Total amount of time an Ambulance was tied up trying to get outside agencies to DO THEIR DAMN JOB - Two Hours and Nineteen Minutes. And not the worlds most satisfactory outcome.
As I mentioned to our Control - sometimes you feel very lonely out there on the mean streets of Newham.
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I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
Comments
Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Doc
on Sat 24 Jan 2004 02:02 PM GMT | Profile | Permanent Link
You're telling me, there are actually people that come out a visit and do an evaluation!? Wow, we have nothing like that here in the US.
Basically, if they are whacked and the cops don't arrest them (or want to deal with it) we have to tote them into the hospital. We can't restrain forcibly either, don't mind if they are violent or anything, we still have to transport them. When they arrive at an already overcrowded ER, the Nurse decides if they need the "Observation Room", or not and maybe a Social Worker or Mental Health Associate will come down and do an evaluation in the ER within the next 12 hours. Of course if its BS, we can always tell the nurse the patient needs to go to "triage", and if its serious recommend that they go to "bed 12" before we get to the ER. Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
spidey_88
on Thu 15 Jul 2004 02:49 AM BST | Profile | Permanent Link
Actually, we do have what they call "Screeners" in the United States (at least in New Jersey). They work out of a local Psychiatric ER and will come out (with a police officer) to assess the person for danger to self or others. If danger is detected, they can call an ambulance which will transport the person to the ER with paperwork from the Screener recommending hospitalization. If the person is resistant, the police can use force to subdue the person and take them in the police car.
In the ER, the doctor must assess the client within 24 hours and if they agree with the screeners, the person can be involuntarily committed. Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Anonymous
on Tue 27 Jan 2004 03:53 PM GMT | Permanent Link
I've had that exact same type of call - I knew that something was definitely wrong with the patient, but I couldn't convince him to go to the hospital. Bad thing is, here in the States we don't have a roving band of psychs who can come in to check on a patient. Pretty much, if they don't want to go and they haven't expressed any desire to hurt themselves or others, and they're oriented to day/time/place, then I can't do anything for them.
Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Reynolds
on Tue 27 Jan 2004 04:55 PM GMT | Profile | Permanent Link
This is what I love about the Internet - you get too see how the other half live...
The CPN service is part of the local health trust that care for the mentally ill in the community, a bit like District Nurses go around dressing leg ulcers and giving injections to our older clients. The CPN service is supposed to provide a community based care package so that people with mental illness live out in the community and not in mental health units. It's cheaper for the government, and when a patient kills themselves it's never really reported. It's only when one goes on a killing spree that the media take any sort of notice. It might not work so bad except...most psychiatric nurses are well and truly crap. Whe I did my nurse training all those years ago I spent the first 18 months with a load of psychiatric nurses - and they are the laziest bunch around; half of them were on drugs during the weekend and at least two of them were alcoholics. Then I spent some time working in a psychiatric rehab unit - and they don't seem to mellow with age...instead they spend all their time in the office watching TV and drinking tea - only emerging to make sure that the "clients" are fed. Of course there are exceptions - the Whittington hospital had a good team the last time I worked there - but that is exceptionaly by virtue of it being unique in that they will come and see a psychiatric patient immediately rather than wait until they are "medically fit". I'm getting bitter in my old age. Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Mr Mans Wife
on Thu 24 Aug 2006 01:36 AM BST | Profile | Permanent Link
Ok, this reply is a tad late - I'm new to this blog (and it's great by the way!)
As the wife of a Schizophrenic it's refreshing for me to read someone in NHS services admit that the people who work in mental health are... well... crap. I agree with everything you say. I'd also like to add that psychiatric nurses often treat the patients and there families like an inconvenience - as if they're actually paid to watch tv and drink tea, and patients just get in the way. As for the community mental health team - one time my husband had to be "sectioned". I called the out of hours doctor in the morning at the weekend and it took until about 9pm to finally get the right people to see him before he could be taken in. Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Anonymous
on Mon 05 Apr 2004 06:37 AM BST | Permanent Link
A viewpoint from Canberra, Australia.
1930 phonecall from my teenage nephew, worried about his mum (who lives alone). 2000 I pick him up 2030 Get there, my sister is delusional, hallucinating, doesn't recognise either of us, doesn't know what day or month it is, and is covered with self-inflicted bruises and cuts. 2100 I'm out of my depth, in desperation phone 000 for ambulance. 2120 Ambulance arrives. After 10 mins, they agree that she needs hospitalisation, They don't even bother calling the Crisis Response Team (they never answer). Her Psychiatrist is out-of-state, his locum phones the CRT with no answer, so passes the buck to the paramedics. 2200 After 30 minutes of coaxing, ambulance team calls the cops who have the appropriate powers. 2245 My sister eventually agrees to go with them voluntarily. They've been trying to pursuade her all this time. Cops are still no-show. 2300 Arrive at hospital. My nephew and I keep talking to her, trying to get her re-oriented, while we wait in the ER after triage. 0130 She finally gets to see a psychiatric worker to be assessed. By this time, she'd lucid, her case-worker in contacted and they arrange a morning appointment for her. 0230 I drive her home 0330 Finally get to bed. That's about 2 hours of ambulance time taken up. I have nothing but praise for the crew concerned, they did everything possible. The system, however, Sucketh Big Time. Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Reynolds
on Mon 05 Apr 2004 10:27 AM BST | Profile | Permanent Link
Yep, ambulance crews aren't really "equipped" by law with being able to deal with this sort of emergency - we carry a load of kit for saving lives, yet this is the job we all hate because we are so powerless.
Hope everything was alright in the end. Re: Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Anonymous
on Thu 15 Apr 2004 04:14 PM BST | Permanent Link
Alright? Well, she's still alive, and getting treatment.
BTW the ACT (Australian Capital Territory) is a little larger than Luxembourg. Population 300,000. A 20 min response time from the Ambulance is remarkably good, all things considered. Fortunately one of the 2 hospitals in the ACT with ER rooms was only 20 km (13 miles) away, almost next door. Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Anonymous
on Tue 23 Nov 2004 07:57 PM GMT | Permanent Link
Er... exactly why is somebody who is just "not communicating" a medical emergency needing an ambulance anyway? Bleeding, yes, not breathing, yes, broken limbs, yes, but who would call an ambulance for a perfectly well person who is just staying silent? Psychotherapy, yes, emergency ambulance, no. Why is this person going to be any better off in casualty? I'm sure if they ignored them for a bit and they realised nobody was taking any notice they would just get bored.
Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Anonymous
on Mon 03 Jan 2005 11:37 AM GMT | Permanent Link
Try doing a little basic mental health research - perhaps an easy start point would be googling for psychosis.
Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Cat
on Mon 04 Jul 2005 06:48 PM BST | Profile | Permanent Link
This reply makes me so angry, I just had to comment. Ignoring someone who is showing signs of a psychotic break is as dangerous as ignoring someone who is showing signs of an MI.
I do hope to god that you, anonymous, are not in the medical profession. Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Anonymous
on Thu 27 Jan 2005 10:34 PM GMT | Permanent Link
Hmmm I feel your pain as a police officer, getting social services out of hours and GP out of hours is a nightmare. If they are in their own home we can't section them under 136 either we are powerless!! (the odd try to get them outside has been tried and succeeded though! EDT (emergency duty team for social services are a nightmare) one example a young female taken into police care thanks to EDT and their incompetence 3 officers time wasted for a total of 9 yes 9 hours!!
Re: Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Reynolds
on Thu 27 Jan 2005 10:40 PM GMT | Profile | Permanent Link
Oh yes... the good old 'Come outside for a fag', trick...
And yes, emergency Social Services are a nightmare... Re: I Hate Psychiatric "Services"
by
Cat
on Mon 04 Jul 2005 06:58 PM BST | Profile | Permanent Link
Thanks, R, for being such a caring person and so good at your job. A few years ago, I was on the other side of this situation and later found that my parents had called the crisis team (about which I will soon be blogging!) and the out of hours GP. The former made my mum feel so angry and let-down that she ended up hanging up on them and the latter were too busy to attend. My dad called an ambulance and the paramedics talked to my parents and then took me to A&E.
Routine blood tests proved they did the right thing. I don't remember any of this as I was dissociating, but my parents were concerned because I was depressed and then uncommunicative. I am very glad they didn't ignore me and wait for me to get bored... Cat x Bred Tomson
by
Anonymous
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Welcome to Random Acts Of Reality, a Blog based in London, England, written by an E.M.T working for the London Ambulance Service. Also, number one search result for "Womble porn". All names have be changed to protect the guilty. This Blog was previously known as "Why I Hate Humanity" but the antipsychotic medication seems to have kicked in.
All opinions on this website are mine alone, and may not reflect those of the L.A.S or other ambulance crews Find out more about me here.
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