I've heard it all now!

Ambulance crew criticised for turning up too soon?

Can I suggest to avoid this situation developing in the future, you sit in the cab outside the house until a few seconds before the target limit? Of course, the patient and their family sat in the house watching you will understand perfectly why you are doing this.

Perhaps we police officers can follow this example? This would ensure that instead of arriving in time to prevent a crime, we could get there just as the crime is committed, thereby increasing detection rates. So rather than preventing a burglary, we can detect one - the same could apply to the situation where a young girl is being attacked in an alley. Why jump in at the stage where we have an assault when we can wait a few minutes and have a detection for rape?

Please note that the above comments are facetious - how can anyone possibly complain about an emergency service getting on scene too early? The world gets madder every day.

At the inquest the jury questioned whether the ambulance service missed vital information by arriving too soon.

Good grief! I am flabbergasted! No doubt if the ambulance had taken too longer to arrive, the family would be suing because they took too long! I know they're bereaved and not thinking straight and stuff, but god stuff like this makes me angry. Sometimes people die, and it's tragic but it's an ACCIDENT and blaming the people who were trying to help is just NOT ON!!!

I don't even want to read the story, for I fear it will only make me more angry.

Liz & Josh (20w 5d)

Mindboggling.

The really worrying thing about this, from the crew's point of view (gotta be careful here, 'cos I work for this lot) is that they were really hung out to dry by comments made by their area manager. Not supportive would be a monstrous understatement. Good job it was a double tech crew, any paramedic would be in grave danger of losing their job. It's one of these 'there but for the grace of God' situations, which is why we cover our arses every time. As for the family considering suing, maybe they should bear in mind that while the death was undoubtedly a tragedy, it was SELF INFLICTED-he'd been drinking heavily. I get really pissed off with being blamed for the results of other peoples' actions, & I'd love to hear from the family how they would have dealt with a drunken violently aggressive man.

"Mr Purnell's daughter Melanie Sawyer also said after the hearing she believed, from the evidence in the six-day inquest, that her father was humiliated in his final hours of life."

Well yes, dam straight. he got himself pissed enough to loose his balance, and was so abusive to the people that came to help him that the police had to be called. I think its safe to say he well and truly humiliated himself in his final hours of life.

I hate that woman. She's clearly a money grubbing bitch, and I doubt she really cares about her fathers death beyond getting a quick buck. This is a disaster for their ambulance service, though, and probably for everyone elses, too - a precedent for suing the NHS for an ambulance crew following standard training and not deaing with a violent patient? Ridiculously bad for recruitment.

If they hadn't called police, this idiot would have just stumbled home and died there, instead. I really don't see how the crew were at fault, I would have done the same damn thing, even if I had ALL the information! If you have a head injury and start trying to hit me, I'm gonna ditch your ass and grab a coffee while the police subdue you! and as far as I'm concerned, swinging at me constitutes refused treatment. End of story.

Grief does funny things to people but it's difficult not to think she is more interested in the money than her father's memory.
Also as a nurse that hes worked with patients with head injury I doubt the delay would have made any difference to the outcome. I can't blame the paramedics from stepping back from this situation either.

Thor, I guess that you must know the woman personally, given that the article states that it was the son-in-law that commented on the possibility of suing. As has been pointed out this is a woman who has lost her father and grief is a powerful emotion. There's no suggestion from what I've read that this paitent assaulted or attempted to assault the crew, just that he became aggitated and combative when they tried to put him in the vehicle. Did they do anything wrong? Not from what I've read but this bloke just got pissed up and then got stroppy at being put in a vehicle, hardly worthy of his own death, let alone the abuse he's getting here.

If you're looking for someone to blame then look no further than the solicitor who tells the family they have a case, they're the real leaches on society.

DSO

Very well said DSO

If she's only suing to make a point and to make sure no-one else goes through the anguish, I hope to see a report after any successful case indicating that she gave all the monies received to charity.

I'll not hold my breath.

And we all know that suing the service will bring her drunk abusive violent dead Daddy back.

While the son-in-law does also comment on suing, the very first paragraph of the story is:

"The daughter of a 77-year-old man who died two days after falling over said she may sue an ambulance trust."

I partly agree about the solicitor, but merely being told that you may have a case doesn't mean that you have to pursue it.

Can the ambulance staff not counter sue the family for mental trauma? I'm sure the whole episode has been at least as stressful for them.

Actually if the daughter wants to sue someone maybe it should be the pub, for allowing her Father to buy enough drink to fall over and hurt himself?

It is an offence to serve someone who is intoxicated. I'm surprised the police didn't detect this crime and clear it up with a really useful £80 fixed penalty to the appropriate member of the bar staff.

Obviously a dereliction of duty for which the family should complain to their local chief constable.

I think it's sad and a bad reflection on society that the first thing that happens after an accidental death is someone starts looking for a scapegoat, rather than just being able to accept it as an accident.

"Mrs Sawyer added: "If they had admitted they'd made a mistake I could probably have accepted it. (I want) to ensure that it doesn't happen to anyone else, and if any lessons have been learned, he hasn't died in vain."

It just irks me that people assume that someone else must have been at fault for his death. The only person at fault was him, for having what must have been far too much to drink...
The ambulance folk did (as far as i can tell from the story) everything by the book, they are not at fault from his eventual death. Chasing the Trust for a payout smacks to me of blatant profitering under the guise of the public good.

So a pisshead with violent tendencies has died...good...I hope his estate have been charged for the wasted callout...

This is blatently a way to try and blame someone else for the mans own failings.

If he was aggressive to the crew, it doesn't MATTER if they arrived 'too early' or 'too late'. If he was pissed, and he became aggressive to the crew, the right thing to do for their and his safety was to hand him over to the police.

I'm not about to try and give someone a medical examination when they're threatening to thump me in the nose. Not unless they're being sat on by a couple of nice heavy officers.

He got drunk, he got aggressive, he got arrested. Yes, it's unfortunate that he died, but it wasn't the ambulance crew that got him drunk. It wasn't the ambulance crew that made him aggressive. Why should the ambulance crew pay for his failings?

Just to play devils advocate here, they only mention that suing the trust is a "possibility" in the future, you never know, they may decide that it is not a course of action they will take.

Right with that out of the way I can add my pennies worth. If I attend an intoxicated patient, I am always on my guard, they are intoxicated, they are not in full control of themselves and I guess there are countless readers here who have had a wallop from a drunk by accident..... I know I have, and they have not really known what they are doing. So if I turn out to an aggressive drunk, regardless of the history I am going to be on my guard. If a happy drunk can throw an accidental punch/kick then what is an aggressive drunk possibly going to do? So what options do we have? Get the police along and let them assist in whatever way they can. And boy are they good at doing that. It is sad that someone has died, but I echo everyone else on this, if he wasn't intoxicated, then he would probably not have fallen over. Why was the pub still serving him alcohol?

As for turning up too quickly???? Its hardly worth the effort in typing a response to that, I can cope with complaints from the public about waiting ages for an ambulance, as we all know there are not enough resources and far to many stupid callers, but to complain that the ambulance turned up too quickly??? At least that will allow the government to review ORCON times, maybe now we can arrange appointments with the caller, and arrive when we are booked, then we really would be a big white taxi service only we can have those stickers on the back that say Pre-booked only just like the mini-cab firms have......

Or perhaps ORCON could be updated to say, Thou shalt get to everything in less than (is it 8) minutes, but you must not take less than 5.

As if it isn't causing you guys enough problems as it is!

Can anyone help me out here, I cannot find anything about this in the stories, but this mistake she wants someone to admit to? Or am I being stupid? (before anyone answers honestly please be mindful that I have just come off nights....)

The mistake of not kidnapping someone who didn't want to go to hospital.
The mistake of not holding him down and forcibly treating his head wound.
The mistake of handing him over to the correct authorities to deal with an abusive drunk.

ahh, I see

Sorry guys, that should read.....

What is this mistake that she wants someone to admit to?

All I have to say is nights, please forgive me

This is where I would love to be a barrister or someone who wears a wig in the big courts, because I would just throw it out of court and tell her to grow up!
Hey, next thing we know ORCON is going to change and we will have about a 30 second time limit to reach the patient; I can just see it; 'the first responder must have reached the patient and begun treatment within 7minutes 48.6 seconds of control recieving the call and 8 minutes 21.74 seconds' Then everyone will be happy! :D