For my sins, I'm responsible for implementing AfC in an area to the east of the big city. I'm too tired of the whole thing to defend it, and hey, it affects me as an employee too so I have my own gripes.... But just to spice the debate up: Agenda for Change is costing a lot more than the old system, That extra pay is going somewhere. The Unions supported it because they can see how much people gain over time. It's costing more to implement in Ambulance Trusts across the country than any other employers (up to 20% on the paybill but not all in the first two years). This is because Ambulance staff get among the highest increases of anyone in the NHS.... .....That may be because Ambulance staff were traditionally underpaid The old system was patently unfair to lots of people. Agenda for Change is less unfair. Last year hospital Consultants got an average 9.5% pay rise for doing nothing extra. Their morale was reported to have collapsed after the award.... Don't be angry for too long, Reynolds