PS Dungbeetle, I just read your posting... Lest I appear insensitive, Med students need practice, most patients seem more than happy to allow us to gain the experience that we are going to need to be able to function in more critical situations... something I am always grateful for..... and still amazed that i've never once had a refusal. it seems a bit cynical to suggest our enthusiasm to pick up new skills is misinterpreted as a lack of humanity... Yours "not wanting to remain and enthusiastic teddy bear forever", L