Ella just beat me to it - I would have put money on it that he is either a current or ex MML worker (and believe me to be successful they work far harder than any of us with jobs do) - I know I used to be a successful Amway distributor (thankfully this is now all behind me). Stuff like this was drilled into you all the time.. JOB = Just Over Broke JOB = Jackass of the Boss That sort of thing - it was the talking about residual income which mad eme think of it - take no notice it's obvious to me that the man is a terminal self abuser cheers steve