OK I had intended that last post to be my final one but I feel I need to reply to some of the feedback, this definatly will be the last time I comment though becuase I won't be returning to this blog. I knew my first comment would be a controversial one, but I am surprised that the only other person anywhere on this forum who seems in the least uncomfortable about lying to people to manipulate them is Reynolds himself "Instead I had to bend the truth, and I do feel bad about doing it." and "This is really naughty." Regarding Julie's accusation that I'm just a troll, well, pretty much by definition there's no way to answer that accusation, all I can say is that I really do mean what I said. almeida, smoochie597, Debs ( I have a fair bit of medical knowledge actually ) and Mr Biscuits, as for if he was competant to decide his own treatment, I'm not relying on my own judgement here. "I'm sure I could 'fudge' a capacity check, say that he was confused and take him in under that, but it would be a stretch and almost certainly untrue." Reynold's own statement says he was. Doctors have been struck off for ignoring patients wishes and treating them against thier will, and I see no moral or ethical difference between strapping someone to a bed and forcably treating them, and lying to and threatening them to get "consent". I know that's a rather emotive example, but I believe it apt. Debs and Mr Biscuits, you seem to be asserting what's basically "The ends justify the means" which I simply can't accept. I'll freely admit this is an area of debate where there's no clear consensus, but my personal view is that the ends can never justify the means. deborah, I was trying not to be sanctimonious, but I'll grant it may have come across that way a bit; I have extremely strong views about a persons right to control thier own body and by extension it's treatment. I would rather hope that a "Don't lie to me" forehead tatoo is unecessary! I really would expect medical people to tell me the truth and allow me to make my own choices. There is clear precident that a person who's mentally competant (see above for justification of that) has the right to make thier own choices about thier care, even if that puts thier life at risk.