...Which is why I suggest the other way to handle such situations - calling people into the office rather than 'punishing' us all. How about DSO/TL ride-alongs? So as to better educate crews and suggest how they might improve. The 8 minute time has no clinical relevance in anything other than perhaps in cardiac arrest (and that may be shorter at four minutes). ORCON is terribly out of date, hardly the evidence based practice we like to use. (Actually, perhaps research into a more reasonable ORCON time should be one of our priorities?) Maybe in a few other rare occasions like brittle asthma minutes matter. But surely you see what chasing this target has done to the ambulance service - it's seldom done anything for the betterment of the patient, or of the ambulance workers. There are, as I see it, three times that need to be met. (1) Be there NOW. (2) Be there within 15-20 minutes. (3) Be there some time today.