If it was me needing the ambulance, I'd be happy if it got there within 13 minutes, so long as that was quickly enough to save me from death/serious problems. Equally, if I died/suffered irreperable damage because it got there within SIX minutes, but I needed it to arrive within four, then ORCON's targets are not going to console me! I can see the point for having targets etc, but given that clinically 8 minutes is no magic figure, we need to ensure that those targets only work to improve service, and that surely has to include not making quality of life worse for ambulance service staff in any way.